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  4. Finale or Sibelius?

  • Finale or Sibelius?

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    Finale or Sibelius?

    Which one is the preferable to work with?

    Are they nearly equal? Please tell me your Experience and/or Opinions on the two Notation Programs.

    Anyone uses both for different reasons?

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    I put together a small list of threads that might interest you. It won't answer your question to 100% though, because I think it is also a big question of personal preference: What is Sibulius useful to you if you used Finale for a lot of years already and are a lot more comfortable with it or vice versa?

    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=6891
    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=6887
    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=6759
    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=5902
    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=5648

    Hope this helps a bit,
    PolarBear
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    Thanks!

    i never work with any of the two before. I spend a couple of hours yesterday with Sibelius 4, loaded some MIDI files into who where generated in the sequencer program. Editing goes very easy and fast. The engraving looks almost 100% as the real thing. I liked the workflow, all very easy without looking at the manual once. The first thoughts who emanated where:

    Have a lot of odd time signature ---> didn't find a way to input 13,2/3-Quarter time signature.

    All sorts of tuplets. That seems to work well.

    Tonalities with mixed accidentals, didn't find a way to input a tonality with two sharps and two flats, ##bb

    Well, i download a Finale demo too, and see...

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    It's some versions ago, but in 2002 and 2003 I used both Finale and Sibelius demos and I didn't really have to choose: Sibelius (2 back then) was it!

    Concerning your problems of special notations, there's lot f possiblillities for those in Sibelius, but if they really get 'complicated' or unusual, you have to find the alternative ways to write them down, in the manual.
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    Thanks again...

    So one could say, they are quasi equal in producing abundant results?
    I like Sibelius already, it's so god damn easy to make a partitura with.

    Time Signature
    Well i can live with e.g. a 17/8 time signature instead of
    5 2/3
    4
    even if it's not the same. They may adds this feature.

    Key signature accidentals
    To avoid accidential before each note, the impossibility for mixed accidentals, i.e. a tonality on the base of the degrees of a scale like D Eb F# G A Bb C# (bb##) is rather a great drawback, at least for me.

    PhotoScore Professional
    (no demo available) --->Scan a full printed score into Sibelius, then arrange and edit it. That's really works?

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    Angelo:

    If you go to the Sibelius Forum here: http://www.sibeliusforum.com/forums/, they can answer many of your questions regarding how to do some of the things you want. I have used both programs and currently have Finale 2005 and Sibelius 4. They both can do just about anything so it's really just a matter of personal preference. For me, Sibelius feels more natural but that's not because it's any better, just how it fits me. Really, you can't go wrong with either.

    Once you choose though, it really is a good idea to do all the tutorials and go through the manual. It will save you a lort of wasted time and effort.

    Be well,

    Jimmy
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    Thanks Jimmy...

    was just fiddling around with Sibelius, it's all very second nature, had no idea that making a score for print is that easy nowadays.

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    @Angelo Clematide said:

    Thanks Jimmy...

    was just fiddling around with Sibelius, it's all very second nature, had no idea that making a score for print is that easy nowadays.

    I think that once you're fiddled some more you would never dream of preparing a score form a sequencer ever again.

    My opinions about Sibelius vs. Finale for printed scores are as follows:

    Sibelius has Dynamic Parts, which can save hours.

    I can get a 95% good looking score in S very quickly; F would take longer (more menus, slower, less intuitive input etc).

    F has more playback features (although neither programs do playback very well).

    S has video (and audio) sync, F doesn't

    For 99.9% of things there is no difference in the printed output, however, there are a few very minor things that F can do that S can't or it is rather clumsy to do.

    DG
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    finale is vastly superior for sequencing because it can create continous controller data with relaitve ease via the midi tool.
  • S
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    Hi there. I work with Sibelius for years and it works great in most cases. Of course for some contemporary techniques you have to fake around, but most of the stuff is possible.

    To use S as a sequencer I am not to happy all the time. Maybe ti is my computer (Cubase is running fine) but to play back really big scores, the midi datas often jump.

    And as you read above: the dynamic parts save hours and hours.

    Best regards, Stephan
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    Angelo

    I've used finale before I used Logic notation, Thinking Its a dedicated notation program exclusively, then to find out it cannot record as sequencers record. Only notate. The scanning ability of both programs (finale, sibelious) are priceless, infact its a technological breackthrough in our liftime as you discovered. The ease of use has sibelious on top. The notation ease of use as well as quick studio all around program for producing has logic on top of all. I went back to logic after a year of finale, which has frustrated me for the better of trying to go back and rework already finished scores. Also if you want played back programs for recording, logic is the only for humanizing and realism, and thats VSL. Finale runs on ram for memory and if you reach its end peak then the notes will scatter into oblivioun and corrupt from begining to end. As if you run out of memory in logic it only will slow down to slugish notification and will not corupt from begining to end, just where you are working on last.. Logic runs out at about 100 pages a part and finale runs out at about 30 pages, the last time I used it. Its a good idea to have both just for safe and all features to have. Also the working ease of staying in one program for keyboard functions is important and one needs to mention that logic's notation is involved completely with the rest of the program, its midi and audio tracks and complete program ect.. one have to know the complete program to work it. So the mac is the only solution here. Looks is the difference in logic notation compared to S,F. If you can sacrifice looks also. But I just want a program that will complete the producing stage for all. That way the remembering curve in staying in one program is also a factor. So what ever fits your objective.
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    Ahh, some movement, or rather a hill slide happen over night... Thanks to all!!!


    @DG said:

    Sibelius has Dynamic Parts, which can save hours.
    S has video (and audio) sync, F doesn't.

    For 99.9% of things there is no difference in the printed output, however, there are a few very minor things that F can do that S can't or it is rather clumsy to do.

    DG



    At day four my workflow is:

    1) Composing in the sequencer program.

    2) Preparing the tracks in the sequencer for MIDI export, so I save editing time after opening in the notation program. For example preparing the notes of the non-tonal percussion.

    3) Importing the MIDI file into the notation program Sibelius; formating and editing till print ready. E.g. get rid of ledger lines overlapping etc..

    4) Alternatively, I see the potential to compose in the notation program, and then exporting to the sequencer for making the preprod. arrange mix.

    Most important is a fast workflow, and the right visual quality!
    At the moment the playback features are not so important to me, i will see how playback affects my workflow in the notation program.

    Scores Pop:
    For pop tunes I don’t see any problems. I looked at scores from Sammy Nestico made with Sibelius, that’s pretty much the way what musicians get for the recording session. The hand music fonts look as in the days when all was hand written by copyists. I may buy this fonts to enhance the hand music look:
    http://store.yahoo.com/expressmusic/musicfonts1.html
    However I will not make the copyist’s work, it’s just wanna deliver prepared data to the copyist.

    a) Most commonly I have to make myself the arrange mix, and at least a lead sheet for the engineer to mix if the tracks are all out of the box. Bruce doesn’t mix anything without a sheet who at least shows the form and the important cues, then he makes his own score before he starts mixing.
    b) Or deliver the data to a copyist to make all the paperwork for session

    Scores Non-Pop:
    I do basically two types of work where notation is necessary, arranging pop productions, and in between my own contemporary compositions, here I plan to re-make three or four scores of older popular works of mine. For the “earnest” pieces I give much on the notation quality, who should look similar good as old engraving.

    ---> DG: Have to find out what it means “Saving time using Dynamic Parts”. But saw the chapter already in the manual…

    ---> R.K.: I made three orchestra scores with Logic in the past. The limit of notation is reached before anything is notated properly. I don't know if notation improved since mac took over. That's why i wrote all by hand till now. But i think software reached a point where it's almost as fast as hand writing. My fastest arranger makes a score in 6-8 hours by hand incl. transcription from my arrange mix. I spoke several times with him if he would be faster using the notation program, i his case Sibelius, he said no. Of course if the hand written score has to be recorded afterwards, then the paperwork has to be made.

    More suggestions, ideas, and experiences are appreciated. It's amazing what one can learn being online...

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    @Another User said:

    I spoke several times with him if he would be faster using the notation program, i his case Sibelius, he said no


    Of course, one has to accustomed to a program to be able to fully use its potential, in the shortest amount of time...

    Personally, and now I leave notation software aside and enter the audiovisual editing programs... I have made all my program leaders (lead in movies and lead outs) with Adobe Premiere, unable to make proper time to learn After Effects. I had since long reached the limit of my possibilities with Premiere alone, but just couldn't make time to browse through After Effects and get used to it. Which I now regret.

    I have worked with Sibelius for quite some time now, and still 'discover' new things, alternative and/or faster ways to do things. Learning would go much quicker when I would've just spent a couple of weeks straight working with it.
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    Weslldeckers, here a little AE help for you:

    http://www.ayatoweb.com/ae_tips_e.html

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    Both applications have their difficulties. In terms of pure notational capabilities, my exposure to both tells me that Finale has the edge for its flexibility and ability to fine-tune score layout. I also use Finale in my daily work to playback VSL sounds. It takes a little fiddling because of the interapplication issues with Logic (and that terribly designed Logic "Environment"), but I have a good and fairly stable setup that enables me to do a lot of great work.

    Michael Matthews
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    Angelo, many thanks for that link! [:D]
    this looks not only cool, but quite useful as well.
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    Made in Sibelius or Finale?

    http://www.johnmcgann.com/Images/DeathWaltz.jpg

    http://worldfiddlemusic.co.uk/sheetmusictoshare/death-waltz2.jpg

    [:D]

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  • D
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    SCORE.............

    DG
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    behind door no. one is finale.
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    Heilige Maria, what a day... The manuals are ĂĽberweak!

    How you break a beam in a tuplet.
    How you extend a beam over a barline.
    How you select one staff over the full score when you see only page one.
    Why does it jump to 100% zoom.
    How to Tuplet over the bar line.
    How you import a single staff into the score via MIDI.
    How you deselect this god damn auto formating who always streteches to the the full page.

    No nothing in the user guide about simple things like that, the word BEAM doesn't even appear in the manual once, nor the online help. Maybe it's a b-word. Have this programmers ever seen a composer from the near?

    [:@] [:@] [:@] [:@]

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